Piper Flyer Association - Technical Know-how, Serious Fun read more

Members only

Please log in to access. Not a member yet? Join now for great benefits like parts locating and premium content.

Greg Kainz thanked STEVE ELLS in topic 83 Dakota main strut 20 hours 42 minutes ago
STEVE ELLS replied to the topic '83 Dakota main strut' in the forum. 20 hours 52 minutes ago

Hi Greg;
A strong set of snap ring pliers with a 90 degree bend between the handle and the pins is very helpful. It allow the installer to fully compress (?) the snap ring without abnormal physical stresses. It's not abnormal to have to push what you call the spacer ring up into place using a punch and a small hammer to move it up.
That said, If you found a second way to re assemble the strut after installing new seals, and it doesn't leak. Good on you, as the Aussies say.
I need to point out that it's important to make sure the parts are super clean since even a small bit of smutch can be enough to cause problems. The seal kits I get for my Comanche include an over long wiper strip. I have to cut it to size or I can't get it in place.
Repacking a strut is not overly difficult but having to go at it from the bottom up can make it hard to see everything clearly and to apply all the actions without tiring.


james Long replied to the topic 'Piper Flyer Mag, 9/20/13: Dick Russ Door Article' in the forum. yesterday

thank you


Jen D replied to the topic 'Piper Flyer Mag, 9/20/13: Dick Russ Door Article' in the forum. yesterday

Will find it and post it.


james Long replied to the topic 'Piper Flyer Mag, 9/20/13: Dick Russ Door Article' in the forum. 4 days ago

I am new to Piper Flyer and cannot find a copy of the magazine. How do I find it. I have the same issue and was going to create a post until I saw this thread.


Heather S created a new topic ' December 2018 Magazine Extras' in the forum. 5 days ago

Piper Service Bulletin No. 1189, issued April 29, 2010
Referenced in "Comanche Stabilator Horn Inspection" by Steve Ells


HANS NEUBERT replied to the topic 'Split rear seats for early Cherokee 235 vs. bench seat' in the forum. 6 days ago

I've done it for a Twin Comanche. It involved welding a truss that holds the individual seats and rests on the same mounting points as the original bench.


Eric Barnum created a new topic ' Split rear seats for early Cherokee 235 vs. bench seat' in the forum. 6 days ago

Would like to know if any one has converted a PA-28 from a rear bench seat to the later style split rear seats?


Jen D replied to the topic 'Piper Comanche Pre-Buy Recommendation (South Texas)' in the forum. 7 days ago

Comanche expert Kristin Winter recommends: Clifton Aero in Clifton, TX


Jen D replied to the topic 'Cherokees to Oshkosh' in the forum. 7 days ago

If you want the experience of flying into the AirVenture grounds we highly recommend joining the Cherokees to Osh group. They are a great bunch of folks and run a very squared away operation. This past year they were able to fly their mass arrival into KOSH before the weather shut down (delayed) most others because they were prepared and ready to take advantage of an earlier departure when it was offered to them.

However, if flying into KOSH is not your idea of fun, come join us for the Gathering at Waupaca, stay in a nice hotel and take a luxury bus into the grounds. We've talked with the CtO folks about teaming up to create an option for those of you who want to fly the mass arrival, but don't want to camp on the grounds, so stay tuned for more info on that.

Between Cherokees to Osh and Piper Flyer Association you'll find your perfect Airventure adventure.


STEVE ELLS replied to the topic 'Hello to everyone!' in the forum. 7 days ago

OK, thanks. It's getting wintery up there. Do you have a heated hangar? If not, what engine preheater are you using? How is it working?


Kent Dellenbusch replied to the topic 'Cherokees to Oshkosh' in the forum. 7 days ago

Hi Michael and CtO team. We are glad to be part of your excitement and look forward to a fun 2019. Happy Holidays!!


Kent Dellenbusch created a new topic ' PAID FAA RESEARCH - We Need Pilots!' in the forum. 7 days ago

Two studies are being conducted at the FAA Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center in Oklahoma City near Will Rogers Airport. Data collection MUST be completed SOON.
The studies pay $25 per hour plus a $20 travel allotment for each study. Each studies takes between 2-3 hrs. If eligible, you can participate in one OR both studies on the same (or different days).

1. Flight deck maximum force strength study needs ANY RATING PILOT - FEMALES ages 30-59 OR MALES ages 30-49. Medical currency NOT required. MUST participate by DEC 13, 2018!

This study collects maximum forces that can be exerted by an individual while in the normal seated position for aircraft control inceptors. The most recent updates of allowable control forces in 23.143 and 25.143 was not fully representative of the current demographics of the pilot and potential-pilot populations. This study is an attempt to obtain an additional larger sample of pilots and nonpilots performing force-application tasks on aircraft controls for both fixed-wing (yoke, stick, rudder pedals) and rotary-wing (cyclic, collective) aircraft.

2. IFR/UAS Control Station study needs ANY IFR-rated pilots OR large (>55 lbs) UAS/UAV operators. Medical currency NOT required. MUST participate by JAN 2018!

The Full Mission Evaluation of an Unmanned Aircraft System (UAS) Control Station study evaluates the effectiveness of flight and flight-related displays for use in a UAS control station under realistic mission conditions. Information gained from the study will be used to provide information to standards groups both within and outside of the FAA that bears upon the establishment of standards for UAS control stations.

To schedule your study participation, please call or email us TODAY!!
• (405) 954-0374;
• (405) 954-6836;
• (405) 954-6837;


Harley Kleemann replied to the topic 'Hello to everyone!' in the forum. 7 days ago

Steve, I am based in Bismarck, ND. The Arrow regularly takes us to Ames, Iowa, to visit kids and grandkids. I like the Arrow because it's reasonably fast, easy to fly, comfortable and stable. With the Tru Trak autopilot and GTN 650, it does everything but land for you!


STEVE ELLS replied to the topic 'Hello to everyone!' in the forum. 7 days ago

it's a good looking airplane. Where are you based? Do you have a normal flight, one you regularly fly? What do you like most about your Arrow?


STEVE ELLS replied to the topic 'new guy' in the forum. 7 days ago

Hi Chuck,
I see you're looking at single engine Pipers with retractable landing gear. Have you thought about a PA 32-300, also known as a Cherokee Six?
The "Six" has a larger cabin, the large baggage door and more useful load than the two airplanes you mentioned. Part of the reason it has a higher useful load is because the landing gear retraction and extension mechanisms, pumps, motors and lines are eliminated. The "down and welded" landing gear also means reduced maintenance costs, all other things being equal.
Not quite as fast but few realize that a 20 knot difference in cruise speed only makes a few minutes difference in flight time during a two hour flight. Here's an example: Let's imagine a Cherokee Six cruises at 130 knots, while the Comanche 250 cruises at 150 knots. Difference in flight time over a 250 nautical mile leg is: 15 minutes.
I own a Comanche 180. I love it and believe my Comanche is the best flying airplane I've ever owned. That said, it's critical to have the landing gear system MAINTAINED. Which means you need to take it to a Comanche savvy mechanic for the landing gear and airframe pre purchase inspection. It's not enough to put a Comanche on jacks and see that the landing gears goes up and down. There are a lot of wear points in the actuating mechanism (they can all be restored to factory new specs by the installation of relatively inexpensive new bushings and bolts) but a little wear in this one and a little in that one ratchets up the possibility of a landing gear malfunction or gear collapse during a high speed turn. It's a good system and the parts are available to keep it airworthy, but the inspecting mechanic must know what to look for. The other Comanche area of concern is the tail (airworthiness directives).
The PA 24 wing is a laminar flow airfoil, built for speed not for low speed lift like the more conventional airfoil on the Lance.
I know about the desired to fly instead of drive to visit family. I am grateful when the weather is good enough to permit me the 55 minute flight versus the 3 hour and 10 minute drive to my sister's place.
Just my thoughts; I'm willing to share more.


MITCHELL KAHN created a new topic ' Cherokees to Oshkosh' in the forum. 1 week ago

in 2010 for the 50th anniversary of the Piper Cherokee, Cherokees to Oshkosh (CtO) was formed to celebrate with a mass arrival. July 20, 2019 will be our tenth arrival.

Cherokees to Oshkosh is the best way to go to OSH. Not only do we have a scheduled arrival time for which our path is cleared by ATC, but you get to join with a great group of aviators for a lot more fun than you can have on your own. Our family of Cherokee drivers, significant others, families and buddies, park together, camp together (for those who don't care for the posh lifestyle of a hotel - we do have a few of those) and have our own hospitality tent. Each day we can share with each other about what not to miss, or that which might not be necessary to see. In addition to our planned social events, there are lots of informal ways to spend our evenings, some involve adult beverages. on occasion we have watched TV shows and films with airplanes as main characters. Our very generous sponsors give a number of wonderful prizes and gifts for participants. Bottom line, we have a lot of fun.
Our LOA (letter of agreement) with the FAA limits us to 50 aircraft. Registration will tentatively begin on January 1, 2019. Registrants above the first 50, will be placed on a wait list.

CtO is open to all variants of PA28s and PA32s. Our participants fly everything from stock Cherokee 140s to Turbo Saratogas, and have included just about every variant of Cherokee including Arrows, Turbo Arrows, Lances, Dakotas, 6s, Archers, Warriors, Cruisers, 140m 160m 180. We haven't had any PA24 Comanches yet, but you too are welcome too.

For more information, visit cherokees2Osh.com . The site will have regular updates as we approach registration and and OSH.

We thank Piper Flyer for their generous support of CtO.


Greg Kainz created a new topic ' 83 Dakota main strut' in the forum. 1 week ago

Anyone have experience replacing the main strut seal on an '83 Dakota? Maintenance manual shows pulling the inner strut out of the outer strut cylinder, then pulling the retaining ring, spacer ring, wiper ring and then the seal. Ok, fine - done pretty easily except the retaining ring fought us all the way out. I'm sure our snap ring pliers were a big part of the problem, since they didn't allow a lot of pulling force on the ring.

Re-assembly steps in the maintenance manual were (in short),
- lube and insert new quad seal in the outer cylinder - easily done.
- install retaining ring, spacer ring, wiper ring on the inner strut shaft
- insert the inner shaft into the outer shaft with caution to not damage the quad seal - easily done
- slide the wiper ring up the inner shaft into the outer cylinder
- slide the spacer ring up the shaft and into the grove on the outer cylinder - done with a bit more difficulty
- slide the retainer ring up the shaft and into the grover on the outer cylinder - just cannot make this happen ... there doesn't appear to be adequate clearance for the retaining ring to fully compress around the inner shaft to clear and insert into the outer cylinder. Again, perhaps our snap ring pliers are the problem.

Thinking about disassembly where the the inner shaft is removed with seals and rings left in place, we assembled the rings in place in the outer cylinder and carefully inserted the inner shaft into place.

This is not in keeping with the steps called out in the maintenance manual, but worked. Any comments, cautions, tricks or tips?



Jen D replied to the topic 'Piper Comanche 260B For Sale' in the forum. 1 week ago

Ha ha! Well that would be nice!


chuck buchanan replied to the topic 'Piper Comanche 260B For Sale' in the forum. 1 week ago

Thanks Jen. So, you're looking...can I expect it by Christmas? :-)