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Brenton Haskell created a new topic ' Shoulder Harness Turbo Arrow III' in the forum. 11 hours 22 minutes ago

Has anyone seen a mod / STC to install shoulder harnesses in the rear seats of a PA28R-201T? I've already got them installed in the front seats but want them in the back as well.
Thanks for any info or ideas.


STEVE ELLS replied to the topic 'Arrow: Automatic Landing Gear Extension is Breaking My Plane' in the forum. yesterday

The service manual has a test to determine if the auto land system is operable.
The auto land system has it's own "airspeed" mast so that system has to be checked too.
I'm not super familiar with the system so I can't really advise on the adjustments; it appears that all adjustments are external and that if the external adjustments are correct the unit itself has to be refurbed.
Since its Thanksgiving Day and I'm going to take off to my sister's in an hour, I don't have time to further research this until I return next week.
I suspect that if the auto land unit needs repair, your only option is to remove it, but again I'm not positive on this suspicion.
Happy Holidays



Thanks again for your help. No, I haven't noticed anything unusual about the speed of the gear going up.

Trying to research why the gear would auto extend if (a) I'm not pushing the emergency down switch (which I understand is a different emergency system from the auto-land or auto-extend system) or (b) the criteria for the auto-land system aren't being met.

Each time the gear has dropped uncommanded, the airspeed *could* have been below 105mph (auto extension speed per my POH). I say *could*, because I wasn't monitoring airspeed at the exact moment the gear fell. However, each time the gear has dropped uncommanded, I'm all but certain the power setting has been above the 14" that you mention above. I have never had an uncommanded drop during take off or climb out, which I normally do at max power and 95mph (Vy per my POH).

Do you know where I could find information about the circuit (or whatever it is) that tells the auto-land system that the power is above the criteria for auto-extension? I'm guessing this is the culprit for my uncommanded gear extension, as opposed to an airspeed issue (although Charlie is checking the pitot system as well).

Again, thanks for your valuable help.


STEVE ELLS replied to the topic 'Arrow: Automatic Landing Gear Extension is Breaking My Plane' in the forum. 2 days ago

It occurred to me that since the up manifold and the down manifold are right next to each other, it may be that the two fittings (No. 33 and No. 11 in the illustration) may have gotten swapped and mistakenly installed in the wrong manifold. Of course that would most likely slow the speed of retraction.
Has anyone ever told you that your landing gear is slow to go up??


STEVE ELLS replied to the topic 'Arrow: Automatic Landing Gear Extension is Breaking My Plane' in the forum. 3 days ago

Hi Pete;
I haven't looked very hard for lessened fuel consumption. I expect it's better but haven't done any comprehensive testing.
Good news on the gear. If your mechanic has a service and parts manual he will find the LG hyd schematic (fig 6-1 in the book I have) and there is a detail calling out a "gear down snubber orifice" in the gear down line out of what the schematic calls the "automatic gear down & emergency free fall gear valve." So there is a gear down snubber but it ain't where the schematic says it is.
If your mechanic has a parts book for the PA-28R-201 (it's the one I have) figure 59 shows Hydraulic System Installation. On it there are two manifolds; part 6 called the "manifold, left" and part 7 called the "manifold, right." No. 6 should be called the gear up manifold, and No. 7 should be called the gear down manifold.
If you look at the fittings on the aft end of these manifolds, the gear up one (part No 33) is a "nipple-AN416-4D, which threaded to screw into the manifold on one end and flared to connect to the rigid hydraulic line on the other end. It's a standard aircraft quality part.
If you look at the aft end of the gear down manifold (No. 7) you'll see part No.11. It's called a "Nipple--restricted." There's your snubber. I recommend that you pull No 11 and check to see if someone didn't accidentally replaced the restricted nipple with a standard AN 416 nipple. The part number of the restricted nipple is 67600-00. It's used in many Piper hydraulic LG systems. New price is around $180.
I would next check your logbooks to determine if Piper Service Bulletin 724A has been completed. The title of this bulletin is "Nose gear landing gear inspection and rigging." The applicability section refers to PA-28R-201TIIl and IV so it doesn't appear to apply but the description sounds very familiar. It says, "Reports have been received of cracked or broken landing gear link and brace assemblies, nose gear actuator housings and hat section fairings."
If you can't find that bulletin, I can send you a copy.
Good luck.


Thanks Steve! My Arrow is a 1971, which doesn't have the lockout pin. So you have to hold the override up.

BTW, I read your great article on the EIS install for your Comanche. My A&P just ordered the system and switch for my Arrow today (since it's in the shop getting landing gear fixed anyways...) Have you seen the claimed fuel economy advantage?

Thanks for your help,


STEVE ELLS replied to the topic 'Arrow: Automatic Landing Gear Extension is Breaking My Plane' in the forum. 3 days ago

Hi Pete;
I'm working on getting you a good answer. As I understand it, whenever the automatic system is activated, it opens the return lines in the landing gear hydraulic system, then the gear (s) free fall to the down position aided by springs.

Does your Arrow have the three position manual over ride switch? If so, one option is to pull the handle to the manual over ride "off" position and install the Lockout pin. I know that's not the answer you're looking for so I'll get back to you.


joey mcmillin shared 5 photos in the Joey mcmillin album 7 days ago

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Second time the emergency gear extension has broken something on me...

Last year, an uncommanded gear extension cost me the drag link on my nose gear. Just a few weeks ago, another uncommanded extension broke the nose gear cylinder mount.

When the emergency system is activated, the gear literally slams out with a loud thud. Very violent. My mechanic thinks this isn't normal. Wondering if the system requires a snubber or something to limit the violent extension.

Does anyone have any insight or experience with this? Yes, I know the system can be disabled. I'd rather just keep it activated, as long as it will stop breaking my plane!

Thanks for any advice or assistance!


Jen D replied to the topic 'Winterization plate for oil cooler.' in the forum. 1 week ago

I asked Wayne Thomas of Pacific Oil Cooler - here's his take:
"Hello Jen,
I suppose that mounting the winterization plate would work just about the same, even if mounted on the rear of the oil cooler. You’re still accomplishing the intended result which is to prevent airflow through the core of the oil cooler.
I have not seen one attached in that location – but then, we never get to see an actual aircraft. Just the oil coolers.
Thank you very much!"

I'm not familiar with the AVCON modification - can you tell us more about it?


Wayne Thomas
Sr. Sales and Technical Advisor
Pacific Oil Cooler Service, Inc.


STEVE ELLS replied to the topic 'Winterization plate for oil cooler.' in the forum. 2 weeks ago

Hi Scott; I've never seen on installed on the back of a cooler in my 40 years of aero maintenance. I suppose someone would start a business manufacturing "winter fronts" as they're called for older Cessnas and Pipers, because the original ones are few and far between.
When I worked in Alaska, most owners cut a piece of aluminum to cover most of the oil cooler, and then used duct tape to attach it to the front to the cooler. As far as I know, no one ever got busted for it, but that was Alaska.
The chances of there even being a winterization plate for your modified airplane are pretty lean.
If I were you, I would fabricate a piece of aluminum to cover a portion of the cooler. You want to cover enough to get the oil temperature up to 180 degrees F, if possible.


STEVEN STOCKMEIER created a new topic ' Winterization plate for oil cooler.' in the forum. 2 weeks ago

I have a 1973 PA28-140 with an AVCON O-360-A4M STC. My oil cooler is mounted behind the rear left cylinder. It would be very difficult to put a winterization plate on the front of the oil cooler but easy to install one on the rear of it.Has anyone ever seen it installed on the rear of the cooler? I would think it would be the same result. Thanks for any info.


Ferenc created a new topic ' Considering to buy Aztec Turbo F' in the forum. 2 weeks ago


I currently own a PA32-300 Cherokee Six. Considering to buy an Aztec Turbo F for the following reason: full de-ice capability, little faster, safety of 2nd engine, + experience in multi engine.

Concerned about the increased operating and maintanance cost. On what2fly.com I noticed the cost/NM for PA32 is around $.80 vs. Aztec $1.57? Any thoughts?

Speed: I currently get about 130-140 TAS at 7000-9000 MSL. What is the cruise speed for Aztect Turbo F at 12,000 ft/normal cruise (15-16gp/hr/side). Trying to get a good sense how much speed I would gain from the PA32.

Any help is much appreciated,



David Paul is friends with Kent Dellenbusch

Kent Dellenbusch created a new topic ' (AD) or certain Piper Aircraft,' in the forum. 2 weeks ago

We propose to adopt a new airworthiness directive (AD) for certain Piper
Aircraft, Inc. Models PA-28-140, PA-28-150, PA-28-160, PA-28-180, PA-28-235,
PA-32-260, and PA-32-300
airplanes. This proposed AD was prompted by reports of
corrosion found in an area of the main wing spar not easily accessible for inspection. This
proposed AD would require installing an inspection access panel in the lower wing skin
near the left and the right main wing spars if not already there, inspecting the left and the
right main wing spars for corrosion, and taking all necessary corrective actions. We are
proposing this AD to address the unsafe condition on these products.


Kent Dellenbusch created a new topic ' Aircraft for a photo shoot in the New York City' in the forum. 3 weeks ago

Wanted: Aircraft for a photo shoot in the New York City area during November 15-17, 2017.

Suitable aircraft: Cessna 206 (with square baggage door or double aft doors) or C-210 (older models with flat spring gear and square baggage door), Piper Seneca, Lance or Cherokee Six. Aft or baggage doors need to be removed for photo shoot.

Photo shoot will be of a Cirrus SR-22T along the Hudson River Corridor.

Photo Pilot: Bruce Moore (30+ yr. photo pilot & formation flight instructor) Aircraft Owner can fly right seat on the mission.
Photographer: Jim Koepnick (award winning aviation photographer) [See our website: www.photo-one.us ]

Please call or e-mail Bruce for more details and to discuss compensation:



Glenn Brasch created a new topic ' Help Keep Airport Courtesy Cars Running' in the forum. 3 weeks ago

Last November, a few people (out of thousands) complained to me that my fundraising efforts for the Airport Courtesy Cars site were too often. In response, I will only ask for donations once a year, in November.

In the past few months I have transferred all the data to a web based platform. As a result, the site will work on ANY device with no bugs, crashes, or Android and Apple permissions required. Please refer to website for more details.

The site now lists over 1,830 courtesy cars across the U.S. I receive a very small percent of my operating costs from advertisers. Most of my expenses are covered from small donations from pilots like you. I take no salary.

Please consider any donation to keep the site up and running in the coming year. Donations can be made via the secure PayPal tab on the site (you don not need a PayPal account), or by mailing your donation to: Airport Courtesy Cars. P.O. Box 85762, Tucson, Arizona 85754. All donors will be listed on the donor page (unless you request not to be). Any donation is greatly appreciated.

Please share this post with a fellow pilot who might benefit from A.C.C.?s

You can continue to email me your updates and suggestions to: Thank you, Glenn www.airportcourtesycars.com


Kent, How are things going with your Seneca. I have close to 1,000 hrs of PIC Seneca II time. My fiance and I just recently bought our own '76...

JEFF SOARES changed profiletype to Full Membership 3 weeks ago